Losing in Yu-Gi-Oh Isn’t Like Other Card Games
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Does it feel worse when you lose in yugioh as compared to other card games? Is it the mechanics of the game or is it certain cards that make that feeling worse? Let’s talk about it.
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I'm glad you acknowledged the fact that it's an apparent issue that's been a consistent ygo thing and isn't just a modern ygo thing
What I hate about whiny "returning" fans are the fallacy they insist on comparing modern, more accessible PvP with whatever the hell their own personal experience was from reading the og manga, playing the vidya vs AI or dueling casually with suboptimal card pool with their childhood friends
Losing in Yugioh feels worse than other games because it's not fun to watch yourself get curb stomped by one move that took many steps. It becomes predictable, and feels unwelcoming for new players. And what you like doesn't always work. It's like you have to have the best decks day 1
Ever since I've gotten into the game, I've noticed how it tends to bring out the worst in people for one reason or another. My cousin and I got fleeced when we went to a hobby shop for the first time. When my local BAM was a DL location, it got kiboshed because of a threat of a lawsuit when a kid had a seizure and the massive crowd of duelists wouldn't get out of the way of the EMTs. A kid put a hole through a wall at my local shop because his cards got stolen and refused to pay for the damage (as did his parents). Said local shop got SHUT DOWN because of noise complaints from a neighboring business from (you guessed it) the Saturday morning yugioh players. And these stories were from between 04 and 06. If it wasn't for my circle of friends and that constant ONE PERSON to play with, I'd have given up on yugioh a long time ago
I particularly get mad when I lose to bricking or making horrendous misplays. Losing to myself is the most frustrating as a competitive player. I can get mad at floodgates but they're kind of a necessary evil in this current version of the game. I do feel like any time I lose a game where go we back and forth for a bit, I feel way better if I lose that game.
I feel like if you play advanced format yugioh in 2022 or even for several years now, you have some form of brain disease. It’s literally become just a ton of people who think they’re incredible at the game. I know I’m sounding like an old head here but back in the day it took playtesting and seeing results and developing game sense, resource management, etc. nowadays it’s just “I memorized every combo for my deck from a YouTube video and you get to watch me have fun doing it. And if you don’t let me have fun doing it, then that’s dumb and I’ll get angry.”
Just raise the starting LP to like 100,000 LP. Sure starting with high life points might make some cards and gimmicks like Dinomorphia and trickstars a nightmare to use, but at least whoever goes second won't have to worry about being taken out before they have a chance to play the game.
I think something else that plays into it is over hyping decks/cards.
You get some really shiny/rare cards, look them up online for compatible decks and people talk about how effective it is, and you think "Oh wow! I got something good here!"
You build the deck, go out and play it, and the other guy basically wipes you out and you think "It's not fair! I had a great deck! The other guy must have cheated or was running cheap cards!"
Games end within the first 4 turns. It’s a lot more about stopping your opponent from playing the game as much as possible than it is a back and forth game interaction.
So I stopped playing around 2013 because of reasons that didn't involve the game itself. I started playing again this last week or so and it has to be one of the most miserable experiences I've ever had playing a card game. It very much just feels like a dice roll just about every time i play a game. I also didn't realize that there could be such a thing as too much interaction.
Well, If I spent 1000+ dollars just to watch my defeat without a chance to retort, i would be tilted too
Speaking strictly about master duel, Imagine playing a game where the winner is decided by who go first 90% of the time, it isn't that hard to understand why people are frustrated. Like seriously how can I retort when you literally negate my entire field😂. I understand that not everyone play those meta decks that do annoying tricks to prevent you from playing, at least not for the first couple of turns. But you will inevitably run into the jackasses that do play the meta decks. For the people that say just get gud, 2 words D.D Dynamite. Yeh get gud my ass.
The first issue with yugioh is that you spend all this time building a unique deck (unless you net decked), and then you fight a modern opponent who just sets up to negate everything you do turn one and so you don’t get to play and use any of your cards.
The second reason is that to avoid the above scenario you are forced to run things like ash blossom and maxx c just to get a chance to play an actual turn or two.
Yugioh used to have so many slow burn duels where your choices really mattered. Now it’s so often that one-two turns in the game is done and it’s just disheartening to try to get back into. Even teaching new people is hard because like you also mentioned the cost is so high to enter. I think that the move if they wanted to do this is get rid of the handtraps and Omni negates. It just stalls the game for the other player and would see a revert back to the older play where traps are valuable.
Droll and lock bird is the only balanced floodgate. Prove me wrong
When you lose in yugioh your soul will be banished to the shadow realm. It’s like no other card games
floodgates and board breakers are absolutely necessary because they limit broken combo decks.
what makes combo decks broken? the enormous amount of negates you can get access from your extra deck.
how could you make the game healthier? ban all of extra deck negations that are easy to summon, then you can limit/ban all of the floodgates.
here you are back a meta where resource management is a thing.
I realize I’m on the unpopular side of this topic but I’m an old school player and that’s just how I like to play the game. I would much rather play under the summon limit then under the thousands summons that we can do in a single turn today. Besides, they could just put more cards in for magic/trap removal. Problem solved.
Yugioh is either like playing Madden on Rookie difficulty and its not even fun for real or its like playing a game that tells you that you lost without even fully loading… There is no real in between… Speed duels is getting there too if they don't make an official ban/restricted list.
this has been one of the reason's i quit playin alota these types of card games feels like people take things way too seriously. certain reactions in particular ive experienced started to give me anxiety of how the other person might react. i basically just switched to board games/ more relaxed card games after while
When I play master duel i get mad when I lose and it's not to the person I'm dueling it's when the game doesn't let me use a spell or link summon and I lose like that and I read it everything and it just won't let me pisses me off
Some one should do a tournament with no floodgates or negates.
Been around the community for 2 decades, your opinion is spot on sir! My personal opinion, the peak balance of structuring decks was the 5Ds era.
This would be speaking for master duel specifically (since I don't go to locals anymore but) the thing that gets me salty quick is playing the same like 3 or 4 meta decks over and over and I'm running like six Sams or Toons or something 😂
And I have "competitive" versions were I can spam gateway for example to get out that heroic champion who stops the opponent from doing anything but that's like Paul's point.
The reason that Sam deck works is cuz I'm not running like pure sam's and I'm running a car that locks my opponent from playing.
Same with toons — if I can go first and set up my negates I just stop them from playing but it's such a boring way to play imo.
It's like yeah I run rogue decks but they're not really better than the meta ones cuz I'm still running stuff to counter the meta which is basically go first and stop the opponent from playing
I started playing yu gi oh when the Azure eyes dropped. Inzectors lights worn tour guide to the under world, and rescue rabbit were all big. Elemental dragons too lmao. People got violently angry at loses, I think it's just integrated into yu gi oh culture. Like how magic players are known complainers, it's a stereotype I know it's not Fact and it is very anecdotal but maybe.
I'm enjoying playing rush duels. I get to play my decks strat/playstyle and I also get to see my opponent's.
I don’t mind losing to players that actually put work in to the deck they made or something crazy and new to me. I hate losing to players who use the same deck as a top tier player who copy card for card, move for move and have no creativity or skill for the game. Edit- losing has actually made me a better player/deck builder which is also why I don’t take it personally ever. But it feels personal when I play the same silly deck but different player.
I feel like a lot of the reason it feels bad to lose is if you get a bad hand or a good go second hand it's still pointless and your stuck watching your opponent take a 15 minute long turn where they summon Barrone, DPE, and/or any other big boss monster and can still keep the combo going no matter how many cards you use to stop it. Then you down 2-3 cards at the start of your turn if you didn't already lose, and it's gard to get those cards yourself because they are so high in price so it feels a little pay to win sometimes
If they ban the floodgates then I really want to see konami implement a rule that limits the negate to only 1 monster per turn. I feel like that is a better solution than limiting special summons
so if omninegate untouchable bossmonsters are not good for the game, then what do you suggest that a modern bossmonster should look like? there arent many options, either your bossmonster prevents your opponent from special summoning, or it has a negate, or its unaffected by other card effects. so what do you want instead? a bossmonster that just deals 8000 burn damage? the days of a bossmonster simply having a lot of attack are long over. we all play the game because of the way that it is, if it was any different it wouldnt be yugioh anymore, salt just comes with any game, just deal with it, i dont like people crying over their favorite game, nobody forces you to play yugioh if you dont like it go play something else.
Bruh I just feel like how ppl feel in the show, I feel like I worked so hard to make stuff work and then they pull out 10+ negates and then u just feel hopeless 😭
I have two commander decks in magic the gathering, urza and tergrid, Yu-Gi-Oh is brutal but at least its over fast. You havent seen salt until youve forced 3 players to sit and watch you play solitaire for half an hour
This was a really great video with a really great topic. I think you were basically 100% correct on why players feel so bad after losing in this game unlike other games. Hopefully the next banlist will fix much
I dont take the game seriously, Its all about if you draw you 2 negates or hand traps, if you dont you lose at a really high %, if you do you win at a really high %. Any deck can just bust you up if you have nothing to stop your opponent from playing so it doesnt matter what you play its just all the draw. make cards to make plays not cards to negate plays
Losing because you're not able to play is the clear issue. I think archetypes should have clear inherit weaknesses built into their strategies.
Like soul servant for example. If you want to draw cards using the DM engine, you have to commit to using DMG, Mahad, Mana, or all 3 to get the most of out soul servant. If every new archetype had more of a risk reward system; That in itself would create more balance and a more enjoyable game imo.
I think the game currently has very low risk but extremely high rewards for summoning, searching, and negating. Not to mention monster effects have replaced the function of most trap cards; making the game faster, more oppressive, and less interactive.
Yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh is pretty swingy. As an active player of over a dozen card games, Yu-Gi-Oh has the least amount of fair interactivity. If a card is in a ygo deck, it's either a bomb, a setup card, or both. This is a result of power creep and poor management of a banned list. The game is still fun, it's just not fun for it's gameplay. Deckbuilding, theorizing, and winning with mediocrity are where I get my fun from Yu-Gi-Oh, not playing competitively. But I also think there's a serious disconnect, where players expect the competitive scene to be this fun experience, when the harsh reality is that it's all about winning, not fun. If you wanna have fun,play casually with friends, but if there's anything at all on the line, then it no longer remains this fun game we're playing, and swiftly becomes a cutthroat duel for victory. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's the expectations of the many players who seem to misunderstand the difference that creates community-wide issues and feelings of unfairness and inequality
personally, what makes me me so mad is when i don't have the opportunity to play a fair game(regardless of which card game it is) whether it's due to bricking or a cowardly opponent who goes first to prevent me from playing, it's this that makes me run (in yu-gi-oh) no negate decks and strategies.
You're not exagerrating anything. Losing is different in yugioh because a lot of times you don't even get a chance to play.
I feel like this would be an unpopular opinion.
If yugioh had a "Standard" format based on release schedule this specific issue could be solved in the next year or two. Advanced could become the new "Modern" format, and Traditional could continue to be our "Legacy" format. I don't know what the further ramifications would be though.
Probably because Yu-Gi-Oh isnt much of a "game" anymore. Yeah you may have a FEW cards that interact with the opponent but it usually comes down to who can win solitaire first
I didn't finish watching the whole video while typing this but I can already say people get upset losing in Yu-Gi-Oh! when they feel helpless to do anything due to floodgates, omni-negates, card protection and board wipes ESPECIALLY on their first turn. Players should at least have a few turns in before the game comes to an end. There should be an interaction between you & the other player – not trying to make them feel helpless and overwhelmed.
I think the other issue with Yu-Gi-Oh! is that there is too many text on the cards. There's no summary on what the card(s) does. So even though there's a way to defeat your opponent, it's difficult to see what you can do when there's so much text and so many cards on the field.
Yo, Have you guys ever thought about doing a duel where both players keep Special, Fusion, Xyz, and Synchro summoning to a total of 5 per turn? I think it would be a neat way of showing more modern decks without the jank that makes modern yugioh a bit more unapproachable, but still keep staples of the game attainable
I never comment on yugioh topics but I had to. I simply couldn’t agree more. Iv played in every meta. Iv also had success in other TCGs like MTG, Digimon, DBZ and even Duel Masters when that was hot for 6 hours. But there’s nothing like the blatant disrespect of yugioh salt. It’s unfortunate and I’m here to say it was never like that. Not even in the worst days of Dueling Network. You know why? Because you can pro set heavy to turn a game on a dime. Simple plays like sitting on an MST till they targeted it. Plus ones were hard to come by. You felt good when you took a chance on change of hearting a face down magician of faith. Players had to bluff. Iv won so many regionals just opening and setting heavy and just waiting. Adjusting. Deducing. And by god was it fun. Always in constant fear of having your board cleared if you overextend with one dark hole or heavy storm. Once staples stopped mattering, that’s when I saw the salt get out of control. You can almost feel a sense of powerlessness. Even playing chaos, it was back and forth. Always. Anyone who was there will tell you. Delinquent Due was nothing compared to cards at 3 today lol. Trust me, all my buddies still talk about the good ol days of yugioh. Hell it’s how I have my closest friends. I could only imagine how much fun people would have in Master Duel in the old Boomer meta. Trust me folks, it was special.
Ps. I’d say spell book and dragon ruler is when I realized we have begun a point of no return.
>Salty combo player rants about anything that lets other players get out of your 11 negate board.
You know if they hadn't gutted every alternate win condition this would not be happening.
I'm fine as long as I'm playing. In master duel. I will play a going 2nd deck that's just a bunch of board breakers with no win condition. Sometimes my opponent with surrender. Not knowing that I don't actually have a real way to win.
I think part of the problem is the age of the game and lack of formats. Coming back to considering playing Yu-Gi-Oh after so long away and seeing all this, it feels like what could be considered the Legacy format for Magic where basically anything from history is okay with the exception of some banned cards so it's a really powerful and fast format sometimes but Magic has so many different formats that are officially supported that you don't have to play it to play the game. Also, at least from a Magic perspective, the cards have costs to playing them whereas you can just make massive chains with no setup except what's in your hand in Yu-Gi-Oh. On top of that, control is considered the least fun type to play against in Magic and with all the hand traps and flood gates it feels like every game could feel like playing against control in Magic.
I came to Weiss when I took a break from ygo and I came to realize that my frustrations come from the fact that the deck I use is usually influenced by me liking the design, play style, or lore, if any. Almost none of those I liked were overwhelmingly strong and I would be overpowered by a more consistent and stronger deck, to the point that you feel like no amount of skill can make this deck play better. That said, I don't personally hate them for using it, knowing we all have different reasons to play.
Back to Weiss, of course there are going to be decks that are just better, but I never felt myself losing after one play by my opponent, as opposed to when I play Master Duel and I can already see my loss just from an opponent playing a Branded card. It's the fact that I can play any deck I want in Weiss and can still have my matches go either way is what I liked about it and what would make me happier if it happens in ygo
The game needs to be drastically slowed down. I’m fine with the power of cards, but what I’m not fine with is how you can pile these stupidly strong cards on top of each other in a single turn and then your opponent just has to either have the exact few cards to out your board or they lose. I think there needs to be a hard limit on Special Summoning like there is for Normal Summoning. This would make traps a lot more viable, S/T removal becomes more popular, you can’t flood the board with literally any deck and the game consistently becomes a back and forth like it was when it was actually good.
Konami has somehow managed to make deck building the best it’s ever been while at the same time making it completely pointless. You can spend hours and hundreds of dollars making a deck, but you still have to stuff half that deck with outs, you still have to go into the same generic ED monsters that everyone else plays. Everything else is just a bunch of different pieces that lead you to essentially the same board. There’s so much variety while having no variety at the same time.
04:06 "Artifact lands deck"?
I love how this video truly feels like I'm listening to a person from some kind of alternate dimension, due to how absurdly different Yu-Gi-Oh seems, compared to every other game I've played. Like I'm listening to the only sane planeswalker who came back from some kind of eldritch dimension that's impossible to understand.
I'm in gold and I lose 39/40 games to OTK link decks. Yes its awful; yes I'm running ash etc… its a 1 turn win 95% of the time
As an antimeta player, I don't believe the problem is negation itself. It's the fact negation has become generic to the point any deck can take advantage of the mechanic, and it should have never been that way. It should of just remained an antimeta thing. Antimeta covers three categories: control, lockdown, and stun. There's absolutely NO reason that any meta deck should be able to do these things. Yet, here we are, in 2022, where everything can do what antimeta can do. It's sickening because what was once a concept for one thing became a concept for all things.