RESOURCE CARDS! (Playing Around #1) Seven Deadly TCG Sins - finalbosscardgame.com

RESOURCE CARDS! (Playing Around #1) Seven Deadly TCG Sins

Kohdok
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That’s right, a new series on card design! Rather than looking at bad designs or exploring important design milestones, “Playing Around” seeks to explore the ups, downs, advantages, and disadvantages of common game design elements.

Resource Cards: Love em or hate em? Deck filler or Draft Compensators? Completely pointless or the very thing the game revolves around? Opinions on their use and different approaches to resources are as old as the genre itself, but is there more than meets the eye to such systems?

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118 Comments

  1. I think the idea of Yugioh as having no resources beyond the normal summon lacks something. Because every monster on the field is a resource to summon another monster. Like I understand that to someone who doesn’t build Yugioh decks it probably looks like spew and then kill them as soon as you have a combat step, but there are many restrictions and interactions to manage. To compre to magic;Yugioh operates on the axis that a good normal summon sets up a dark ritual, and the goal of your combo is to stick enough mana dorks and draw enough cards that you end with force of wills live and lethal threatened. Even back in goat this idea started to be developed with Megarock Dragon OTK and sister deck Ratbox

  2. I was looking for a way to temper creature summoning in a card game I'm plotting and I'd like more focus on the non-resource card methods, whether or not they're those you cited towards the end of the video.

  3. I like how almost 100% of the problems with Yugioh stem from it never having a resource system to begin with, but the developers were like, "Oh well, we'll make it work". And, here we are years later and it is literally the definition of a mess.

  4. I've always loved the system Fantasy Flight's Call of Cthulhu used, where you have three Domains that you attach any card to as a resource, and can tap those Domains to pay to bring other things into play. The complications came in with how each domain can only pay for one thing when tapped, meaning that you could be wasting resources, and some powerful cards were Dedicated, where the entire cost had to be paid with a single colour of resource. Later sets introduced Sacrificial resources, which generated more when spent, but where then removed from the domain. It meant there was more decision making in where you allocated resources to each turn

  5. I play Yugioh and temperance is big pee pee poo poo. Tiny brain want big monster kill oppnent.

  6. This was very helpful, I keep forgetting that there are games that fall into the MTG or DM systems. Thank you for the video!

  7. Honestly, I am just sick of hearing people complain about resource cards, particularly lands in mtg.

    Getting routinely mana flooded or screwed is, objectively, not a regular issue for players who understand how to effectively play. Will it happen every so often, just due to the nature of random play? Yes. But there's a reason Magic basically perfected the mechanic. It tests a players ability to gauge their own deckbuilding, mulligan knowledge, color fixing, etc. It's just a level of depth that a game like Yugioh simply cannot and will not have, unfortunately.

  8. Everyone always bitching about resource cards when the literal point of randomization is to balance out the bell curve of skill v luck.

  9. remembered duel masters when you mentioned it various times with it's resource and life systems, and i thought of making a cube with some friends. have you thought on covering cube drafts in a video?

  10. I feel like WOW tcg found the sweet spot on ramping while giving a good reason to consider diluting with quests as well.

  11. Two things:
    Firstly, the first episode of this being about resource cards almost made me think about having a dedicated "Life Deck" on the side to be your LP (Kind of like an Anti-Vanguard in a way), but then I realized that your Life-Decking video kind of handled that already.

    Secondly, I'm working on trying to make a Card Game, and (to be honest) I really didn't like the idea of having Resource Cards in my game. My work around to this was having an MP Gauge that stays the same through the entire game. Players have 5 MP at the start of every turn (monitered through a D6 as a Spin-Down Tracker), and that number does not change throughout the entire match. This seemed fine in my head as it's a sizeable number that allows some flexibility, but doesn't allow card combos to get too crazy. I'm unsure whether or not this will kill balance allowing combos too quickly or forcing the game to a crawl, but I need to make more progress before I can come to a conclusion on that.

  12. The Digimon TCG resource system might be my all time favorite. Personally, I'm all for a solid "action" system like the one in Card Wars, just so long as you don't get too cute with zero cost cards…like Card Wars did (dammit)

  13. hearthstone source system doesn't work only in digital, it's basically equal to don system in one piece

  14. I don't understand this guy's hate bonner with vanguard, its such a well designed game.
    Still it was a good video to watch.

  15. There's a reason the Black Lotus is so valuable and also banned from all forms of play.

  16. Love the content! Helps me with my TCG I’m working on

  17. Kohdok, Magi Nations engerize system – has any other card game done that? Okay you blinked it on screen lol. 😀 Vampire … something. Oh what catagory would Star Trek card game go in? Its long gone now… but what system was that?! you just put things into play… Hmmm.

  18. you forgot to mention one of the biggest problems with dedicated resource cards, getting flooded (only drawing resource cards) or screwed (drawing no resource cards). these can really create non games and are super frustrating to experience, when game devs try to "solve resource cards" its usually this their trying to solve.

  19. Despite not being a fan of the art, I am a big fan of Elestrals resource system. You have a dedicated resource deck that also serves as your life points.

  20. I personally really love Digimon’s Memory Gauge system. While it has accidentally created a meta where “Memory Tamers” and “Memory Boost Options” are staples in almost any deck, there are also plenty of ways to gain Memory and/or reduce costs to the point that they aren’t a necessity.

  21. Lack of resource cards is basically the only thing keeping Yu-Gi-Oh atop my list of favourite card games.

  22. This might be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but i actually like being able to just dump your whole hand into plays in yugioh. Yugioh as a game is a different beast from most TCGs anyways, so it's kind of difficult to just say whether it's bad/good, but being able to just keep extending into multiple summons and bringing out big stupid special monsters just triggers the pleasure centers in my brain. I can definitely understand the criticism of it being to fast though (or rather too fast and too slow, because turns take long and games are decided quickly depending on the deck)

  23. An important resource in Yugioh that rarely gets mentioned is the limited number of Zones. Being restricted to only 3-5 Monster Zones is a huge limiting factor when compared to games like MTG where any infinite loop often translates to infinite card advantage. Many combos in yugioh are hard capped by the number of zones, and some combos are stopped in their tracks if u place a card in the wrong zone.

  24. omg ive been rewatching the series and a new one just dropped! ive actually been working on my own resource system, its a cross between MtG and Pokemon, you can play what are essentially followers, who have their own HP and can tap for resource, can also block, and can also attach themselves to another creature to power up the moves for said creature.

  25. Thank you for your efforts on this video. Just wondering if there is any card game where land type cards can be destroyed?

  26. I think resource system should be thought after the main mechanics have been stablished, thus making the resources feel natural and in theme. Maybe your resource system is needed for all cards played like MTG, or maybe just for a few yet powerfull actions like in Vanguard or WiXoss.

  27. Really think Flesh and Blood kind of nails resources… Just using cards as the resources in some varying amount

  28. So true about yugioh. If it weren't for control decks and stun decks every game would be over by turn 2 or 3.and even then yugioh games tend to be shorter then other card games. Still my game of choice because gren maju decks are so fun and online free simulators are plentiful which help for a player like me in a region with few players.

  29. I absolutely love this niche you've gotten into… But I can't believe you haven't talked about Gate Ruler yet! I don't really know which category either of it's two resource systems fall into.

  30. To offer some lighthearted thoughts on the format of this one, while this was a pretty good video (as always) I feel like it didn't actually end up showing much of the ups and DOWNS as much as it could have. This felt a lot more like a glowing review of resource card systems with a much more trepidatious approach to criticizing their faults. Obviously I'm a Yugioh guy, so I'm going to have a bias in some regard here, but I would have liked more of a Devil's Advocate perspective as well. For a lot of us dedicated, longtime Yugioh players, that crazy ceiling of what you can do on a turn can often be part of the fun (not ALWAYS, of course, but it is part of the game's design and it wouldn't still be so popular if it was flat out wrong in this approach), and I was disappointed that perspective wasn't really acknowledged or addressed at all.

    Still a really good video, but those are my thoughts. Looking forward to more.

  31. I legitimately just hate your opinions on Yu-Gi-Oh.. you make it seem like a joke and you also seem to just dislike it half the time ..now that's your opinion that's cool.. but honestly man I really think you should play it competitively and actually understand the game before you start judging it the way that you do just off of these blanket statements or thinking about everything in a vacuum .. unfortunately you always seem to think that everything needs to basically turn into Magic… there's a reason why Yu-Gi-Oh is the Big 3 it's Unique and different.. stop trying to compare Yu-Gi-Oh to Magic it's two different things.. honestly the differences is what make both games so good in my opinion.. I don't know I just dislike you… you literally remind me of every snobby magic player that plays Yu-Gi-Oh for a couple of weeks and think they know everything about card games I really try to give you a chance but honestly you make me sick to my stomach and I usually don't do this online but you really do.. I think your opinions half the time are pretty decent and come from a good place but when it comes to Yu-Gi-Oh you always have this disdain that I just don't appreciate.. maybe different points of view and whatnot.. but honestly I think you should do your research better on the game and actually find out about it.. you should actually talk to people that's been playing the game competitively for years and have played magic competitively for years before you start spouting pure garbage… I'm done unsubscribing from your channel because every single time I see one of your videos I give it a chance and then you start talking about Yu-Gi-Oh and it's always negative.. I guess I agree to disagree

  32. Is Yu-Gi-Oh ever going to be use as a good example for anything aside from “ a good way to do mixable attributes”, I mean it’s still in The top 10 it has to be doing something outside of being everyone’s “ don’t do what this game did” punching bag

    I just want to know I’m not playing this game because I am dumb and can’t tell a good game from a bad one

  33. I'm currently working on my own TCG, and at the moment I have three resources. Blood, which you have a static 3 of but you can also use to health of your own units for blood costs, bone which is by using cards from the graveyard once a card there is used it goes to the afterlife and it can be used as soul before it is out of the game for good.

  34. I disagree with the idea that Magic and Pokemon would have been dethroned if resource cards were a hinderance. Players who are invested will tolerate anything and everything to keep playing

  35. I think you never gave Vanguard a dedicated video about why you don't like it. It really strikes me, cause for so many years I've loved it, specially when it was first conceived and was less cluttered with new mechanics. You mention a good thing or a bad thing every once in a while, but never gave it a full analysis.

  36. Naruto’s turn marker system worked fine even with the chakra system which was also a resource system.

  37. Final Fantasy Trading Card Game handles this in a really elegant way, in my opinion- it's sort of a best of all worlds approach for a Magic/Duel Masters-like.

    The gist is that it's, at it's core, an any card as resource game. Most every card can be discarded from hand to serve as 2 CP (mana).
    However, there exists a type of card called "backups" that go to your back row that can universally be tapped for 1 CP of their color.
    The rub to this is that you can NOT "float" mana- if you have a 3 CP cost, you can either discard 1 and tap a backup for 3 CP total, or you can discard 2 to generate 4 CP, overpaying by 1… But that extra CP is gone after paying the cost.
    The balancing act of tempo vs efficient curving of costs provided by discarding backups vs playing them is a really unique mechanic that lends a lot of interesting choices to be made.
    In addition, most backups have effects either on entry, passively, or as abilities, so they are far more intricate and important to the designspace than something like basic lands.

    Also of note is that your frontline has no limit, but you are limited to only 5 backups. Ergo, your slots are a resource as well, and a backup that has a cost of sacking itself could turn out to be a boon if it's able to make way for more relevant card in a situation.

  38. saying theres no turn 4 in yugioh is insane when the past couple of formats have been grind decks that can get up to turn 10 consistently

  39. Just tossing this out there. I both LOVE your content and your insights. But also? Your titles make it confusing to find. So far seven deadly sins of tcgs is… more than 7? Errata text is more of but different?

    I don't mean that as a slight. Content is hard and like I said, I love your stuff. Just giving you a data point is all. (And I could be an outlier; my data point isn't inherently more or less valid than anyone else).

    Anyway. Appreciate you.

  40. The nice thing about Force of Will’s resource system is that you tap your Ruler in order to get a new Magic Stone into play each turn
    So it’s harder to be like “did I get a new stone this turn?” when there is a clear indicator for it
    The Special Stones in FoW are also bae in my book yee

  41. My TCG has a different way to approach a resource system. but it works in tandem with all the other combine mechanics of my game. Also making the point that depending on how you design your game a resource system could be similar or different compared to others already created.

  42. I like how Final Fantasy TCG handles this. There are Backups which can be tapped for 1 mana, but rather than getting one into play per turn, you have to pay for them like any other card and you have a max of 5 out on the field. Aside from them, almost any card in your hand can be sent to the graveyard to pay 2 mana of cost for another card. It kind of has the feeling of "any card as a resource," but since the cards go to the graveyard instead of some isolated resource stack, they can still be interacted with afterwards with various graveyard effects. It still creates a sense of pace for the game since you can't just fire off high cost cards at will, while also naturally creating room for tech cards, where if a card isn't good against a particular matchup, it's still a card you can pitch for cost.

  43. I kinda dig the way Force of Will and One Piece use their resources, though I’d be down with seeing new distinct but still simple Don cards. Would love to see a video of the One Piece card game as well!

  44. 4:20 This "downside" sounds a lot like an upside honestly. Ccgs are built around players making difficult, skill-testing decisions throughout the game. Having players decide which card they deem their least useful prospect is a great way to add agency and raise the skill ceiling.

  45. can you expand on using separate resource decks? it feels like a good strategy

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